While less prominent in the headlines for Syria watchers, the protests against Hay'at Tahrir al-Sham (HTS) and its policies in parts of Idlib and its environs persist. HTS, for its part, has made various vague commitments about reform and conciliation, but has also arrested people on grounds of 'public security', such as al-Zubayr al-Ghazi (Palestinian jihadist and former HTS member running the 'Wage Jihad With Your Wealth' campaign- subsequently released) and Abu Shu'ayb al-Masri (Egyptian cleric who was once affiliated with HTS and was rearrested shortly after I published an interview with him about his experiences in HTS prison).
Today's interviewee is Abu Mustafa al-Halabi, a former HTS member and a friend of Abu Shu'ayb. Abu Mustafa talks about his time in HTS, why he left the organisation, and the ongoing protests against the group. Abu Mustafa is himself wanted by the group for arrest on grounds of 'public security.' Any parenthetical insertions in square brackets are my own.
Q: Can you provide me a summary biography of yourself? When were you born and what were you doing before the revolution? After the revolution broke out, with which factions did you work before joining the Hay'a?
A: I am Muhammad Mustafa Ma'arawi, known as Abu Mustafa al-Halabi. I was born in Aleppo in 1998. Before the revolution, I was between school and Qur'an sessions and studies of 'Ilm [Islamic knowledge]. When the revolution broke out, I joined Harakat Ahrar al-Sham and worked in the military realm, and then I joined the Shari'i office under the supervision of Abu al-Walid al-Hanafi who was head of it at the time. God ennobled me with entry into a number of battles in Aleppo city and its countryside. After leaving Aleppo, I moved to the Sahel [coastal area] with the Shari'i office, and I worked as a teacher in Shari'i courses for the revolutionaries. I began preaching in the year 2014.
I have studied at Aram University in the liberated north, and it is by God's grace towards me that I managed to memorise His Book [Qur'an] and obtained license to teach recitation for the Qur'an, the six hadith books and other texts.
- The mashaykh I have been taught by: my first shaykh- my father (may God protect him); Shaykh Abd al-Razzaq al-Mahdi and Shaykh Abu al-Waid al-Hanafi (may God protect them both and grant benefit through them).
Q: Did you join the Hay'a when the project was initially launched? For what reasons did you join?
A: Yes I joined the Hay'a on the first day of its formation, and I was very happy about the unification of ranks and joining of forces. I announced its formation on Friday in one of the biggest mosques in west Idlib countryside, namely the al-Rawdha mosque in Salqin. My aim was like the aim of all who joined the Hay'a- establishing a powerful Sunni entity defending the religion, blood and honour of the Muslims, which would be a rod against the conspiracies so that the areas could be liberated from the grip of the oppressive Bashar al-Assad regime, injustice could be done away with, and justice could be established under the authentic, eminent Shari'a of Islam.
Q: When did you stop working with the Hay'a and what were the reasons why?
A: I stopped working with the Hay'a at the end of 2019.
The reasons:
1. The Hay'a is no longer an Ummah project or a group, and al-Jowlani [Abu Muhammad al-Jowlani, the leader of HTS] has personally monopolised power over it, and they have transformed it into a field of experiments. For Shura [consultation] among them is superficial and the courts among them are superficial, so what al-Jowlani thinks is the ruling followed, even if it contravenes God's law. There are also secret prisons for those who speak against al-Jowlani or deprecate his ability. Is this an entity that rules by Shari'i rulings or is it an embodiment of people of whims who rule by al-Jowlani's rulings?!
2. Military failure and superficial review of battle, for there is no interest in military deeds and fortification, or concern for the lives of the soldiers and taking safety measures seriously, but rather they throw the young men into the front lines and the leaders hide in the rear lines, so they do not exercise any wisdom in managing the battles, or courage that would make them precede the soldiers at the forefront and thus encourage them and make them steadfast. And God is our reliance and He suffices as trustee.
3. The Hay'a became an entity doing away with competencies, and thus many of the scholars and military blocs left. Their way of administering is musical chairs, such that when a complaint comes against a corrupt amir, he is transferred to a higher position instead of holding him to account, only because that person is pleasing to them and acts as they wish.
4. The Hay'a's concern for customs, taxes and monopolising business, so they do not care whether the money they have taken is halal or haram, and they begun to wage war on the people in their livelihood and impose taxes on the most rudimentary components of living, so there has been an increase in the oppression and subjugation against these people who have been displaced from their homes and left everything behind only for someone to come and exert power over them instead of helping them and recompensing them for what they have lost in this war in which what is dear and precious has been offered.
5. The Hay'a leadership's oppression of the revolutionaries and mujahidin, whether outside or inside the Hay'a. For al-Jowlani has fought 24 revolutionary factions, including Ahrar al-Sham, and he has transgressed against many of them so that he can consolidate control. Also there is oppression inside the Hay'a in terms of the lack of concern for members' most basic rights and needs, for the amni [security apparatus member] among them receives $300 besides the incentives and gifts, while the murabit [person on frontline manning duty] spends most of his time awake at night to protect the civilians and does not have a salary greater than $100- this is so for the married member, while the bachelor receives much less. So the amni who oppresses the people and terrifies them is strengthened and honoured, while the murabit who protects the fronts is humiliated and in need. So what justice are they speaking about?
6. The most important matter is that the Hay'a leadership has abandoned a sense of humanity, for al-Jowlani and his amnis have turned into human beasts who kidnap and harm those who demand reform, and indeed things have got to the point that they run over those they arrest and fire bullets at wanted people whose fault is to have demanded freedom and justice.
In addition, there are assaults on homes and scaring of women and children, and so they do not send a notification to the wanted person and is done in all countries of the world, but rather they assault his house at the time they want and take him in front of his mother or wife and children, without the slightest regard for the condition of these women and children as they see their relatives being arrested in this way that lacks the slightest degree of humanity.
This is something I testify to before God. The foundational reason for why I left the Hay'a is the issue of imprisonment of women and children, for I knew of a case of an oppressed man known as Abu Muhammad al-Babi, with the shabiha [thugs] coming and arresting his wife and small children after a period. They told me about the pressure put on them in prison and how the interrogator made the eight-year old child 'Mu'min' sit down, as the interrogator began showing him an electric wire with the aim of making the child admit what the interrogator thought were criminal allegations against his father. It's a long story.
These are the most important reasons why I left the Hay'a.
Q: How do you see the Hay'a project today? For example some say the Hay'a's leaders embrace the idea of revolution but on the ground the Hay'a complies with the ceasefire on the fronts. In other words what are the Hay'a's objectives?
A: The Hay'a is as far as it can be from the idea of revolution, for the revolution arose against oppression and now the Hay'a- and in particular al-Jowlani and the amnis- have turned into gangs whose acts resemble those of al-Assad, for you may be walking on the road and then you will be run over with a car and kidnapped, just as they did with Abu Shu'ayb Talha al-Musayyar [Abu Shu'ayb al-Masri] whose small child was with him (and the recording is documented on video and publicised), besides the corruption in the sectors of government and the nepotism.
As for implementing Astana [de-escalation conference organised by Iran, Turkey and Russia], it is true that al-Jowlani did not attend Astana, but he has implemented it through fighting the factions that were active on the fronts- for example he fought the Nur al-Din al-Zinki faction in Aleppo countryside, and then the area fell without any notable resistance. I saw this at the time, and likewise I was present at the battles of Ma'arat al-Nu'man and Saraqeb and there was no intention of fighting and defending the area (though there were honest people in the Hay'a who fought fiercely), but the capabilities were not brought for them. So al-Jowlani is the true godfather of the international agreements.
Q: The Hay'a says that it embodies an Islamic project. To the contrary, some criticise the Hay'a for allegedly not implementing God's law and hudud [legal penalties for crimes]. What is your comment on this matter?
A: The Hay'a takes from the Shari'a what accords with its aims, but the eminent Shari'a has commanded for justice, and the Hay'a are the furthese of people from that. The Shari'a has commanded preservation of the Muslims' blood, and the Hay'a has deemed their blood fair game. The Shari'a has commanded the preservation of the Muslims' honour and wealth, while the Hay'a has violated these things. The Almighty has said regarding the guilt of those who choose from God's religion on the basis of their whims: "So do you only believe in some of the Book and reject other parts of it? The only reward for the one who does that is perdition in this worldly life, and on the Day of Judgement they will be brought to the most intense torment, and God is not unaware of what you do."
Q: For what reasons does the security apparatus arrest people? How are circumstances in the prisons? Is it true for example that the Hay'a tortures detainees in order to compel them to admit crimes?
A: The security apparatus' mission is to arrest all demanding reform, justice and Shura. al-Jowlani says 'You are a wrongdoer' and criticises that person's deeds, so the security apparatus with al-Jowlani are like the shabiha with Bashar al-Assad. For example, there are many activists and free people in al-Jowlani's prisons, such as the brothers Sharif Abd al-Hadi, the Aleppan Shaykh Abu al-Walid al-Hanafi, Shaham al-Alwan and others. Now I am wanted by these amnis by request of al-Jowlani, because I demanded justice and Shura and rejected oppression and dictatorship. So at any moment I may be arrested and killed under torture amid the widespread oppression and absence of justice among this gang.
There is also intense torture and there are many testimonies, some of which I have had knowledge of. The prisoners are subject to the ghost position [NB: see here for context] and the rod is applied to their backs, and they remain this way for days. There are also torture tyres and there is the electric chair that the prisoner is placed on, with the prisoner being doused with water and then subject to electric shocks. Besides all this, there are cursing and vituperation of the prisoners' honour and they are deprived of their most basic rights.
As for the place of imprisonment, the security prisons are basically caves that do not see the sun and are high humidity: each cell two metres by one and a half metres, and there are children and women in the prisons as well. I had knowledge of the case of the family of Abu Muhammad al-Babi who was arrested and whose wife and children were then kidnapped to pressure him. There is also a female child called Bayan imprisoned with her mother. She is five years old and is present with her brothers Abd al-Rahman and Abdullah. Abu Shu'ayb Talha al-Musayyar spoke about them. There are many other children, and this is a very serious matter that is forbidden by law, ethics and internationally.
The method of arrest is also devoid of any ounce of humanity, and in it the covering of the homes may be violated and people's privacy exposed, and that does not matter to them. What is important for them is to get the wanted person: how and when are not important. On 23 June of this year, the amnis went to arrest one of those who went on the demonstrations and demanded for oppression against the people to be done away with: namely, Shaykh Abu al-Walid al-Hanafi, who was leaving noon prayers with his children in the mosque near their home. His wife heard her children intensely crying as they were screaming, so the woman hurried and came down to the street so see what had happened, for the amnis' car was present surrounding the place, and they had tied her husband in front of his children and placed him in one of the cars. So the woman clung to the car and placed her hands inside the car through the front window in order to prevent them from taking her husband. So they began holding her hand and trying to get her to let go, but they could not, so they turned on the car and began hurrying and she till clung to the window, and so she was strung to the ground on the whole way and her feet were injured and her jilbab was torn. Then when the car's speed increased more, the woman fell on the ground and her leg was heavily injured, and they almost ran over her but for the grace of God. Is this deed a reflection od humanity? By God, even Abu Jahl did not do this sort of thing.
As for confessions, they are extracted under heavy torture, and many of the detainees were killed under torture in order to force them to admit crimes they did not comit. Among those killed from intense torture was Abu Obayda Omar Abd al-Hakim. And the Hay'a's members have not escaped its oppression, for at the beginning of last year, al-Jowlani arrested 500 members of the Hay'a, among them military officials and people who held sensitive positions in the Hay'a on the accusation of collaboration. His amnis gained authority over them and subjected them to terrible torture (the names of these people are publicised in media and what happened to them is also all present in testimonies from them about the methods of torture and what they faced), until they confessed against themselves regarding collaboration and corruption portfolios. It then subsequently became apparent that these confessions were taken from them under torture and al-Jowlani admitted that with his tongue, and he said to them: 'Your right is upon my neck'- and he apologised them and let them go exonerated. So what is this torture that makes the innocent confess against himself regarding a great crime he did not commit? And God is our reliance and He suffices as trustee.
Q: What is the level of administrative corruption within the Hay'a and the Salvation Government?
A: The Salvation Government is administered by people who have great loyalty to al-Jowlani, so if you want to be an amir or official, the condition is that you be an al-Jowlani booster. As for competency, there is none.
For example, in the Awqaf and Justice ministries are nominal ministers, but the real minister is Abu Majid al-Shami, who has no qualification and is not known to have any prior knowledge or experience with any of the requirements for this position, but he controls the two ministries and the reason is his absolute loyalty to al-Jowlani.
Also the general financial official for the government and the Hay'a is Abu Abd al-Rahman al-Zarba, who was previously a driver for Abd al-Rahim Atun (the Hay'a's Shari'i [clerical official]), so al-Jowlani approved of his loyalty and appointed him general financial official despite his having no qualification.
So administrative corruption is widespread in the Hay'a and the government, and yu cannot receive a position without having loyalty to the person fo al-Jowlani, such that I once met with the previous interior minister (Ahmad Latuf) and he told me: 'I do not move an inch without Jowlani's order'- i.e. he is a nominal minister. Also the justice minister in the Salvation Government does not possess anything appropriate for his position, so when people among cadres and elites held a demonstration demanding for those arrested for expressing their opinion- at the head of whom is the lawyer Issam al-Khatib- the minister Shadi Muhammad al-Waysi came to them and said to them: 'What are your demands?' So they told him about the detainees and their names, so he said to them: 'We as ministry of justice have no connection with the security judiciary, and political matters are not our speciality. You have brought me your demands and I will refer them to the leadership. I am responsible for those arrested for civilian matters. I will get back to you according to my competency.'
So this response of his makes clear to us al-Jowlani's lying.
For when al-Jowlani met with the American journalist Martin Smith [NB: see here for context], he made three important statements:
. There is no torture in the prisons.
. We have no political or opposition detainees.
. We have no (security) prisons, but rather the prisons belong to the administration responsible for overseeing the liberated areas (i.e. the Salvation Government).
And the Justice Minister Abu al-Abbas al-Halabi refutes al-Jowlani and confirms that:
. There is oppression (torture) in the security prisons.
. There are political prisoners per a political decision made by al-Jowlani (outside the judiciary).
. There are security prisons not affiliated with the Justice Ministry and the Salvation Government.
You can see that there are secret prisons for the kidnapped and the justice minister in the Salvation Government that is affiliated with al-Jowlani has no knowledge, and indeed has no competency at all to intervene in them. Rather, he only implements the orders that reach him. Is this a justice ministry or a ministry of oppression led by al-Jowlani?
And this is the case with all the sectors in the Hay'a and the government.
Q: After five months, how are demonstrations going in Idlib and its environs? Has the number of demonstrators decreased, and have the demonstrations become less widespread?
A: The oppressed people have spoken and there is no going back until the oppressor al-Jowlani is brought down, and during the past five months, the demonstrations have been in the thousands, but [they have decreased] because of the terrorism applied against the demonstrators in the court demonstration and the amnis' attack on the demonstrations with sticks pointed with spikes and points and the serious wounding of many of them and the dispersal of the demonstration and opening of fire (and the video is publicised in media). Also there is what the amnis did in Jisr al-Shughur and besieging Binnish with more than 1500 amnis, and the arrests of the demonstrators carried out in a criminal way, as they did with the munshid [singer] Abu Ra'ad al-Homsi as his hand was torn apart when they arrested him by car collision and they then shot him to death, and his crime was that he demanded freedom and justice and sang for that in the demonstrations. Not only this, but the matter got to the point with the amnis where they attacked the women and cut the path to them so that they should not come out in the demonstrations, and they even attacked the women by running them over. This is what happened with the sister Islam al-Omar in Binnish, for she came out with the women demanding her imprisoned father (whose only crime was that he went out on the demonstrations) so an evil member of the security apparatus obstructed her and tried to run her over with his car, but God saved her and only her foot was hurt for the car ran over it (and the filming of this is published in the media).
All this is to put out the demonstrations and silence the voice of truth. As a result of this, an aspect of fear and taking a step back has arisen among some people, and this is a natural thing. All should know that the movement is continuing, so if they wage war on it, it will intensify, and if the leave it alone, it will expand, and oppression will eventually not last even if God's granting of respite for the one who commits lasts a while. But the day will come when the oppressor will get the reward for his oppression, and God will seize him powerfully and mightily. And perhaps that will be soon.
Q: What is your view about the talk of 'bringing down al-Jowlani'? What is the solution to correct the course in the liberated north?
A: In previous years, through his leadership of the liberated areas, al-Jowlani has proven his failure, oppression, criminality and tyranny. He is not fit to lead at all, but rather he imposes his authority on people's necks by means of subjugation and the people submit to him while hating him and his deeds. al-Jowlani's remaining in leadership means the continuation of suffering, oppression, violation of taboos and torture in prisons, as well as killing under torture. The only solution to correct the course is to remove al-Jowlani from the scene, form a true Shura council from the people who have competency and expertise and not al-Jowlani's relatives and connections, and dissolve the Public Security apparatus whose woes have been tasted by the people.
That is all, and God knows best, and what I have got right is from God, and what I have got wrong is because of me and Satan, and praise be to God the Lord of the Worlds.